Talk:Hollow Vergil
Hollow Vergil = Hollow Ichigo Okay. No matter how similar they are, you cannot say it was derived from Bleach. There is no official source that says such a thing, like how we have an actual source from Tameem Antoniades saying he took inspiration from They Live for DmC. Doesn't matter how much you think it does, that's totally unprofessional to pretty much put words in the dev's mouths. We have no source on this, and it's a bold claim to say they did it on purpose. Even as some sort of apparition, Bleach ''wasn't the first to pioneer white-flushed counterparts of characters, so saying it was derived specifically from ''Bleach is a rather misguided conclusion to jump to, when inspiration could literally have been drawn from any other place. You also can't claim that "they must have heard of Bleach." I know plenty of people who haven't, or only know it so vaguely they barely know what it's even about. We don't know how they spend their off-time, but we can't just assume they've heard of a specific anime. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, it's not for this wiki to decide. And even if it's "just soooo obvious," still no; we have a tag explicitly for bringing attention to inferences so they can be fixed or removed, so why ''are we allowing this inference? Mentioning the striking similarity as ''trivia is enough. Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 15:14, April 8, 2013 (UTC) :Ooooor, they must have heard of bleach because they used its two main vas in their last game, and this character seriously acts exactly the same, and has blatantly the same name. We don't require director confirmation that echidna is based on the mythological echidna. Come on, dude, this is both blatant, widely recognized by reviewers (including forbes), and totally within wiki precedent.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 22:17, April 8, 2013 (UTC) :::Right, because it's totally ''professional for the wiki to infer, with '''no proof', that Ninja Theory ripped off an idea from something they might never have heard of, when both the term "hollow" and pale-colored, ghost-like, mean-spirited copies of characters have been used elsewhere for years. As a content creator, I'd be pretty fucking pissed at an information aggregate for claiming I stole something from a source without evidence to the fact, not when there's plenty of other sources it could have come from, if any specific source at all. :::And believe it or not, some people play games, or know of games, and don't really know or care where a voice actor came from. And ''CAPCOM ''was the one who had two VAs from Bleach in DMC4, Ninja Theory wouldn't readily know information like that, something on a project from five years ago they had absolutely no part of. Once again, this is inference, which I was under the impression the wiki supposedly aims to avoid, what with the headings warning against it. Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 23:56, April 8, 2013 (UTC) ::::I'm gonna have to agree with Derekoe on this. It's a great point for trivia, just like some other similarities, but we can't say it was deliberately ripped from Bleach without proof. :\ Also, please do not speak condescendingly to fellow Devil Hunters, who are so graciously donating their time and attention to the wiki. It's not very professional behavior, and does not reflect well on our community. -- Anobi (talk) 01:56, April 9, 2013 (UTC) # Capcom worked on DmC as well. Capcom has a legal department that is responsible for vetting this kind of thing. They're not stumbling blindly around, it's their job to be informed. Claiming that Capcom and Ninja Theory are so profoundly unaware of what happened on just the previous game says something much more negative about them than that they used a perfectly legal reference to a character in another series, which is done in games all the time with no controversy. The version of the page that was there merely stated "derived", not "plagiarized" or "ripped off", so your specific claims about how it's unprofessional are irrelevant. #If you guys are claiming that we can't point out design basis without it being stated explicitly in the game or by the developers, we have quite a large portion of the wiki to burn. #Anobi, please quit the double standard. "Come on dude" is nothing compared to what Derekoe put in his first post, if you're going to be calling that sort of thing out.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 03:02, April 9, 2013 (UTC) :I was speaking to both of you, so no, it is not a double standard. As for point 2; I never said we can't point out the similarities. I was just saying we have wiki precidence of pop-culture similarities being mentioned in Trivia, so we should probably stick to that. -- Anobi (talk) 03:13, April 9, 2013 (UTC) ::If anything modern has to be left in trivia (which is really just moving the claim, rather than really defusing it), how do you propose we address Bob Barbas, The Order, and Mundus? As worded, that would still require a burn.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully! 03:22, April 9, 2013 (UTC) :::I'm not really sure what you mean, since we (generally) don't put mere similarities in Background, anyway. The background of The Order (DmC) probably should be moved to trivia. As for Bob Barbas, we do have a source saying he and RNN were based on a "certain" network that should "remain unnamed," so if that qualifies as a reliable source, I say we can leave it in Background. Neither Mundus page has any contemporary associations, as far as I can see, so I don't really know what's being implied there. I'm not arguing against your assertion that Hollow Vergil is like Hollow Ichigo: I totally see the connection here just like with Poison and the Slurm Queen. But, without a reliable source, we should be cautious about making the claim tht Hollow Virgil is based on or derived from Hollow Ichi-ni-san. It should really be left in Trivia until something surfaces to say, "Yeah, we totally were inspired by X." -- Anobi (talk) 03:47, April 9, 2013 (UTC)